In your mind, what is the features / ideas you believe will enhance the coop experience in IM?

I think the RPG character progress is what will make the co-op experience so entertaining to play.
For example I could spend points going down a technician stat tree and gain an ability to hack locked doors and then my team mates would rely on me to hack open doors or to find an alternative path. Then while hacking the door open they could provide covering fire for me.

Another example would be progressing down some form of spy tree that gives stealthy abilities. Then that team member could sneak into a base and deactivate the alarms and open the front door for the rest of the team to come in guns blazing.

Well i know that you say all help helps but maby alot of peoble (like me) will only say things that you did think about your self.. BUT!! That is also good cus that just shows that it is good ideas :-)

Well but now to the feedback (is it really feedback then i even havent played it?)

Gamemodes

1. Survival - One team fight sharks and survive (if you will make sharks in this beta)
2. Team Deathmach - Two OR 4 teams fight aginst each other untill no one is left OR the time is up
3. Capture the flag - Two OR 4 teams fight aginst each other about getting the other teams flags and return it to base
4. Rescue - Two OR one team fight to get the hostage (if it is one team then they fight aginst NPCs and then please make a little story about it :-) )
5. Bomb the base (maby not that name..) - Just like CS, Two teams fight aginst each other to set the bomb or to avoid it (or defuse it)
6. Deathmach - No teams it is just kill or be killed
7. Capture the base - Two teams fight aginst each other to take all the bases (or get most kills and bases then time run out)

Can't really think of more but maby some others got some ideas :-)

And i dunno why but i did also got some gameplay and other stuff but now it's gone..

I think immersion enhances co-op. It's fun blasting your way through with friends but there have rarely been co-op games where everyone on the team feels frightened, tense and engaged in the story. RTVP is one step towards that.

However, encouraging specialiasation and cooperation is also key. Every member should be different and part of a whole. You need the medic to heal the wounded, the explosives expert when things get hectic, the suppressor to lay down heavy cover fire, etc.

Moreover, I think in coop we should be able to do things like share ammunition (toss your teammate a mag when he's low on ammo?) but also the idea of suppressing and flanking should be key.

Beyond that, I dunno, can't think right now.

I would like to see some sort of environmental interaction that requires multiple people, like giving a player a boost so they can reach an air vent, or two marines forcing open and holding an automated door so the others can go through before it closes.

From seeing the GDC08 presentation, I am absolutely sure about one thing: You guys will definitely make the best coop game ever. RTVP just blew my mind. It's the step from "some guys sitting in front of their PCs talking to each other via voice chat and playing a game about space marines in a science lab" to "four guys being space marines in a science lab, shouting at each other through their radios". Ultimate immersion, I simply loved it.

As for that, I don't think I could say anything that you guys didn't consider. So I'll just write down other things that are going through my mind.

• Of course, markers for your friend being projected on the helmet's head-up-display, showing their position, health and if they're currently doing something special like hacking. Maybe an EMP could be an interesting aspect for the coop story... All of the sudden, your whole display is blurred with static and you can barely see through, so all of you have to raise their visors and fight without any help like markers - everybody must work together closely and communicate so nobody gets left behind.

• Different ways of entering rooms/areas so you have to decide... Split up in four, everybody taking another door so every enemy gets hit regardless of which cover he has. Or remain a team, going through the front door and blasting everything with combined firepower. Or three as an assault team through the gate while one stays behind on an elevated position sniping. Or maybe two groups of two, one team going through the front door while the other team climbs the wall and comes from above... There should be no best solution so you can play that part 10 times still doing something different.

• Maybe there could also be actions that must be done together (Like Kane & Lynch 2 or Splinter Cell series) or require at least two or three men. Breaching armored doors, transport a huge explosive device or the kind. Ensures the team works together.

• In the last Ghost Recon: Future Soldier trailer, there was a scene where a man was arrested. Time slowed down and you could see where your buddies were aiming, and then everybody was acting simultaneously for a perfect approach. If you want to work with scripts a lot, this would be an option. Other idea is when you want to storm a room, everybody could get to breaching position (different options of how to breach, like shotgun (if you have it), kick down, explosives etc. would be awesome) and klick ready, and one of the players who has been elected captain triggers the breaching so everybody breaches at the same time. On the other hand, RTVP propably makes this option expendable because you can just count down to one. Still, please give us some Rainbow 6 breaching options =)

• Mentioning scripts, to everybody who played the Modern Warfare-games: Remember when Captain Price/Captain MacTavish always was there when you were falling? Dragging you up and saving your life? That always impressed me because I really felt thankful for that man even if he just was a game character. Perfect for immersion. As for coop, maybe here could be scripted events being triggered (e. g. a bridge collapses under enemy fire) and a certain player (maybe the one who is running behind the rest of the team) is inflicted (in this case, falls down and hardly manages to grab the edge with one hand. Then, one player must save him (just like in a normal dangerous situation, like being grabbed by a shark) while the others defend the position against approaching enemies. The point is, it would be an awesome feeling playing that thing the first time and then that bridge collapses, you thing you are falling to death, Maybe your helmet display says "CALL HELP IMMIDEATLY", then you scream for help, one of your REAL comrades runs back and pulls you up with a cool animation. Similar to splinter cell conviction when one of the agents is held hostage and the other one must shoot the enemy to free him. The voice chat after such an event would be crazy... "Thanks, man, I thought that'd be game over..."

• Tossing a mag, propably with a good animation instead of just opening an equipment screen? Good idea, Asta.

• The AI should be prepared for coop to enhance it, for example: If there are many bullets flying past their heads, they should get to cover and stay there (most of the time) as long as the bullet hail lasts. For human enemies, of course. The sharks could run away from heavy fire from a machine gun and search for another way (not all of the time, that would be boring). Then covering fire would make sense. Or they should try to pick players who are alone and try to bring them down with all their force, encouraging the team to work together or even set up traps...

• Designating targets which are marked by a red arrow or triangle or something on the screen for everybody. makes sense because they are networked future warriors with helmet displays. So if you are the sniper and see one of those mecha-things coming which you can barely damage (or can you, by shooting different parts? Would be fun working together against bigger enemies when the sniper can't destroy it, but can make it slower by shooting cables on its legs or make its aiming worse by shooting the camera), you can just mark it for your explosives friend.

• Maybe there will be some things you can man, like mounted machine guns or so. There could also be such "stations" which need more than one marine to work - like heavy mortars, where one marine does the aiming, the other one must reload and the third one can guide the projectiles when they are falling back to the surface (which could also be optional, so you decide if you want more fighters or more precise mortar shots.

• Last one: Make the marines distinguishable or maybe even a bit customizable so you know who to talk to. Maybe different colors for the shoulderpads (and three or four extra colors only for Spearheads, like gold, silver, pink and shiny black) or even national flags and different camouflage for the whole armor (like anthracite, black, bluie urban camouflage, brighter grey camouflage, flecktarn, digital camo and so on... Maybe also other items, like a skull painted on the helmet, a rambo style headband around the helmet, huge golden "Spearhead"-sign on the chest (only for Spearheads, of course), heascarf on the helmet, and so on. Of course only one item at a time.

Just my two cents. I've just wrote what I'm dreaming of, so don't think I expect all of these to be done.

I agree that the key will be interactive or multiple people requirements. I was envisioning missions where one or two people in the team would need to coordinate via radio with the rest of the team while tackling different problems. For example, one team go to the control tower to remotely lock down blast doors to a launch pad, while the other team keeps the already loose aliens/land sharks from destroying their launch vehicle. I like the teamwork idea of boosting up or helping down your teammates from heights, so long as it's not prevalent to the point of irritation. Such things should be lightly scattered to add flavor.

Interaction elements like exchanging equipment can be an annoying factor if not done properly. I've heard of games where the method of giving someone a single item is so difficult that you need to spend 5 minutes doing an exchange. I would like to see it where you should be able to quickly hand someone an item so they can deal with a dynamic situation like hand over a magazine for a fire fight or toss them a key to a door.

I'm not big on Gamemodes. I'm looking forward to the team co-op experience in campaign. At worst, if you do setup Deathmatch style game play, please include options for setting all human players on one side against the computer, aka Battlefield 1942.

Hey Gortos, ever play Republic Commando?

To make the cooperative experience and the experience in general great and not just good requires the emphasis in a very open environment. Giving the players numerous ways in which to reach the target's objective is a must, not only does it enhance replay value, but it allows teams with different setups to take different courses of action, like a team with a tech hacking through a door which would otherwise be impassible.

Do make sure that you don't fall into the trap of forcing players to use a specific team selection since every person's play style is different and all challenges should be similar to Deus Ex in that specializing in Tech allows completion just like specializing in Medic.

As far as the specialization elements, I hope that a player wouldn't have to spend points or gain levels (however it is going to work) to unlock different weapons and instead can unlocked by qualifying with it (like in the real armed forces) in something similar to bullseye. I think this would work better because leveling up in a shotgun doesn't exactly make sense because it's a situational weapon, just as a heavy machine gun and sniper are. Also in this way you can allow the player's actual skill with particular weapons shine, rather than just having to invest stat points into them like Mass Effect. However this isn't to say that there shouldn't be perks to make them more powerful, just that it should be up to the player which weapons they want to use to a competent skill level.

I would also like to see some ability to progress down several skill trees, so you can have a medic/tech, sure they wouldn't have access to the higher level medic or tech skills, but having someone as a jack of all trades can be really handy for versatility sake. That being said, there should also be significant pros and cons to each class.\

Example: perhaps only techs get the ability to use EMP grenades/hacking tools but can't carry as much ammo, only medics can revive but can't bring explosives, only heavy gunners can bring ammo packs but have a slower movement speed, ect.

To Summarize my points

1. There should be large levels with various methods of completion.
2. Weapons should be unlocked through the skill of the player not by leveling.
3. Classes should all be varied and have pros and cons for each tree.

[Edit: After I read some more into what you have done with the project, it seems that you're already covering my first point with the latter and the idea of the specialization system is similar to my third point. So really just keep doing what you're doing and I'll be along for the ride.]

I must say, the things you really need in co-op oriented games is teamwork.

Make it so people are dependent on each other and discourage soloing (Unless it's for an objective) So that people actually stick together rather then getting them selves killed for the hundredth time in a row. I find the RPG system some mentioned to be nice, especially if you have different tech tree's so you can randomize and create your own soldier and ideal character for yourself instead of the standard class system, having the skills you want and find best suited for your play style, is a happy gamer. (Or dead one)

Also, maps should have tight spots and large area's, so that people can always use different strategies depending on their current situation, in tight spaces you will have to fight back to back to keep the enemy from advancing, ideal to defend each other but with little movement speed you can die pretty fast, whilst in large area's you are more likely to take cover and gun the enemy down cause of the large playing field, which makes flanking an ideal thing to do. I heard someone say Republic Commando, I loved it and it really showed you how team work should be like during a fierce battle or just an infiltration mission, maybe you could get some inspirations from such games for level designs?

Also, the objective based game play makes Co-op games more challenging and you will need to know what everyone is capable of, really putting not only your trust but also your luck in the game to succeed, like having one person hack the door controls whilst the rest defend, or defend key locations to advance the level or suffer a time penalty, making it harder and in which you must make a tight plan which can only be done correctly with perfect team work. Also, a VoIP in-game would be a handy addition, this way people can react to each other faster then having to type out every single word and suffer death by the hands of the long line of words, which can be frustrating sometimes.

The dragging wounded soldiers part sounds awesome and will always get my adrenaline packed, haven't seen much games doing that, being wounded and fighting till your death is always a good thing to see happening. Maybe add a survival mode? See which team can survive longer then the other for not only a competition but also just for fun, mostly the second for me.

Lastly, if you have enemies and I looked at the sharks, the 'deep wound' things would be fun, rendering the user from actually moving around much and having to depend on his fellow soldiers will make the game play even more realistic and actually builds a bond between the players, of course people will try to time rush the maps but you should do it with a difficulty system like in Left for Dead, the faster or better equipped (Ammo and Health) the team has the harder or easier it gets, but it never must get to easy or the fun will drop, but it shouldn't be all pre-generated in which you have a typical scenario, one team is full on health and ammo and gets like twenty enemies at them, the finish the fight with low health and ammo, team two however faces twenty enemies as well, however they get killed during the battle because they have no health and ammo at all, which is very frustating with some co-op games I played. However if you do it pre-generated you will have people that use tactics instead of fast trigger finger gaming, conserving ammo and health by using melee attacks. (If that is even possible)

Just some idea's.

For the love of the game! (And the joy of fighting alongside your fellow soldiers and of course the thrill of killing mutated sharks!)

~MCHurtubise

Old Republic Commando thread.

Teamwork: If you look at Left 4 Dead 1,2, these are perfect co-op games driven by great gameplay tempo and really good AI. Another great game, not co-op but multipalyer, is Americas Army 2,3, where people have to synchronize their movement, they have to communicate, help each other, fight together etc.

Professions/Class: Ok. This is quite essential, but maybe there should be only 2 classes: marine and medic. Then it's possible to combine 1 medic + 3 marines or 2 medics and 2 marines etc. We don't need any other special classes unless it's essential for the vision of IM. I mean, why do have engineers, recon etc.? With a good customization, ranks and skill level every marine can be different withou forcing/limiting people to choose from 4 classes with strict weapons and equipment. For example I've found the 4 classes in the new Medal of Honor pointless/useless. We don't need them.

Motivation to play: Bad Company 2 - I would love to see system of leveling the character and receiving points for my succes, helping the team etc.. These points could be used for buying a new equipment like in Killing Floor or CS games etc.

Skill system: There could be a progress in skills like speed reload, movement speed, accuracy, stamina etc.

Rank system: The better you play, the better rank you get and the better equipment you can use. (buy/earn).

Communication: With the Realtime Voice Porting technology this should be a really immersive experience. But still there should be a quick menu for orders like 'cover me', 'stop', 'open fire' etc. and maybe this should be also done with a system of hand communication, but maybe not, marines have radio in the helmet which is soundproof.

Overall the most difficult task is to create a really good AI that match up with the quality of the players. If you have 4 newbies with no skills, with only default weapons etc. you can force them to play like pros by sending 100 Creature Sharks against them. But if you have 2 veterans and 2 very good medics with top notch guns (and roses :-) you can engage them in the game little bit more.

Hey from what I've read so far I can see many of my ideas have allready been mentioned by others. That makes me so happy to see that I am not the only one hungering after a well made co-op campaign.

So I have just one thing to add right now: A couple of people have talked about hacking doors and consols. It would be really cool if the player hacking should solve some simple puzzle. I just downloaded 'Alien Swarm' from steam and there you have to solve a puzzle to hack a computer or something. The puzzle itself is not hard, but when the monsters hammers on the door, while the rest of your squad shoot those that breaks through the windows, while shouting at you to hurry up. Then it can get really hard to concentrate. Also the puzzle is different at each computer so you need a momment also to figure out the logic of the system. It's a bit like those fast IQ tests.

Then if a player is good at hacking is it not because of some level/point system in the game, but rather because he has real experience in solving the puzzles in the game:)

-For the love of the game-

Sorry to answer back to you, but from playing Alpha Protocol and Fallout 3 just some time I would be very surprised if there was any of these hacking-minigames which don't get boring after some time. Also, IM ist really keen on its immersion and I think solving puzzles just "throws you out", it's too unrealistic so you will be clearly realizing you're playing a game, not being in it. I could be wrong, although; maybe some kind of cautiously connecting cables which are in the normal ingame graphics, so you just bow down, open a hatch and there are those cales and you have to connect the right ones without touching an alarm cable or so.

About classes, I hate them. I hate being told "Buddy, you're a sniper, you can't use medipacks." I think the system IM uses is just great - if you snipe a lot, you get a better sniper rifle (or maybe not better because that creates "useless" weapons, just one that handles differently), different scopes, a bipod, greater mags and so on. And if you drag your friends out of the line of fire a lot or revive them, you get better medic kits making you heal them faster or able to carry more of them. Just "do it and you automatically become good at it". It lets you be a rocket launcher medic or maybe a sneaky "spy" character with a medium machine gun so he jumps out of the shadows and mows anybody down.

To ehance game play perhspd include:

1. Able to give clips/ mags to another team mate.
2. Gently push them out of the way if they are blocking my shot.
3. Many ways to interact with the environment in combat situations. Really well animated actions that loooks like scenes from an action film.
   

Hey Gortos. I haven't played Fallout 3 or alpha protocol so I don't know how they use this feature and how complex it is, but what I was thinking should be really simple. It shouldn't be a game in itself(if you whant a puzzle game then you play a puzzle game) but more just so that you have to do SOMETHING instead of just holding down the "use" button. here is an image from Alien swarm : you have to connect the pipes from left to right. when you click a piece it rotates. It's really simple and there is only one solution. But under pressure can it take a bit longer.

I agree with you on that it would be best if it where in the game world as opposed to a screen that pops up. It could maybe be like controlling computers in Doom 3 if you have tried that:) or wires to reconnect like you said.

Anyway, its really exciting to come up with ideas:D

I agree with what Tacticalspoon said.

To make this co-op game truly immersive, teamwork MUST be essential and REQUIRED to progress through a level. If one Marine goes across an old bridge at a time, and one makes it across while the other three are trapped, they should have to work together to figure out another way across.

• Extreme punishment for people who act stupid, like TeamKilling and so on

• rewards only for TeamWork, solo actions should not be encourged by the game.

• Resource managment (ammo) WITHOUT the use of loot and stuff. These things always lead to fights over items.

• Mission Design that works well in Coop but does not require constant acts of cooperation. Vaulting teammates over walls or pushing stupid switches at the same time are not only overused constantly but also hurting my beloved single player experience.

• a non-insulting upgrade system. I think for example AlienSwarm has a problem there, Killzone 2 failed. Progression System, okay fine but DON'T go overboard. Give the people something to play with, not force them to unlock every ammo clip seperatly. People want to have FUN WITHOUT HAVING TO INVEST WEEKS TO GRIND, a concept some modern games forget.

Normally, I'd add a solid tutorial to teach people how to play but for that we have the SinglePlayer. Man, don't you screw that up, I want my Single Player Experience! ;-)